Paperbacker Podcast 0:00 Welcome. We are backpacking the world through books. I'm Jake and this is page my book companion. Hello, everyone. You're listening to Paperbacker Podcast. Hello. I'm in the land of kimchi and soju, South Korea. And we're here in front of a Korean bookstore. And we're about to enter. Now, Paige, I know you're just a book, but please promise me to stick close and not wander off. Okay? Paige 0:41 Okay, I promise. Paperbacker Podcast 0:44 All right, then. Here we go .Well, this looks great. Now, first let's...Paige? Paige! Oh, geez. Paige. Where are you? Kenny 1:04 Are you looking for something? Paperbacker Podcast 1:05 Oh, hello. Yes. I'm looking for my book page. It's about 400 pages wide. White cover. Have you seen anything like that? coming by? anywhere around here? Kenny 1:20 Oh, I'm sorry, but I couldn't see much. I was reading my own book. Paperbacker Podcast 1:26 Oh, really? What book, are you reading? Kenny 1:29 I'm reading the book. _________________. This is actually Korean writer book. And this is a translated to our twisted hero. Paperbacker Podcast 1:45 Oh, really? Who wrote the book? Kenny 1:47 This book is written by Yi Mun-Yol. And he wrote it in June 1987. I think he won the Yi Sang Award. All the Koreans knows it well. Paperbacker Podcast 1:59 Well, that sounds really interesting, if everyone knows the book, I want to know too. Kenny 2:05 Yeah. Because he represent our society. Like, everywhere, a lot of corruptions and also like, there are a lot of like, brown-nosers. Like, someone who has a power and then you know, they want to use it for their own purpose. How can I say there is a...what's happening in the society? Like, you know... Paperbacker Podcast 2:25 Yeah, contemporary, I guess. Do you mind if I take a look? Oh, let's see. Ah, okay. Yi Mun-yol. In the back of this book. It says he was born in 1948. He had some unhappy early years. His father defected from the North Korea in 1951, during the Korean War. Ah, Yi Mun-yol also had a checkered school career. He had financial and other problems. And after his mandatory army service, he worked as a reporter and teacher before making a name for himself. Oh, look at this. His books have been translated into eight languages, including English. It says here it was translated by Kevin O'Rourke, a professor of English at kyunghee University in Seoul. Well, that tells me about him. What about you? Kenny 3:20 I am a professor of PNU, Pusan National University. And I'm in charge of, you know, some test prep like English in a test. I love reading books, especially like, culture related a book or any (book that) give you, like, a good thought. And also, you know, I love to talk about, you know, anything, anything in the world, like even I can talk about a dog like for hours. But you have read it before, right? Yeah, when I was a really young, like, I don't know, maybe like, before Middle School, maybe after, I don't know, is a 1987 ap for me school. And this is kind of a requirement for a reading class. And I had read it, and then I didn't really like it because of too much represent, you know, like up society, and also corruptions and also like, someone willing to, like, use their power to get their own stuff. Yeah but, it ends very good. I guess... Paperbacker Podcast 4:36 I see in the book. It says something about a Gwangju massacre, that this book is connected to that in some way and I never heard of it. Gwangju massacre. I never experienced it personally. But my father, uh, was born in Gwangju when that (happened). I think he saw what was happening after, like a one, I don't know, like 13 year(-old) boy killed by the, what's that, that dictatorship and everyone got really angry. And they went out to the street and then shouting to the dictator and then we need a freedom we don't need a year or control anymore. So also like, um, the power killed up a lot of people like a bygones and in a shooting from helicopter. I mean everything. So it's a really awful thing to describe. So like all the civilians, they didn't have any weapon, like they were totally unarmed, but like the soldier, oh my god, shoot the people without mercy. Like a lot of people like, you know died out. Luckily my dad survived. There are a lot of like a movie made from it and, you know, a lot of, I don't know like anecdotes, you know from the Gwangju massacre. A lot. Well now I'm hooked. I gotta read more. Summary 6:19 Han Pyeongtae, our protagonist is 12 years old in fifth grade, and has just relocated to a small town with his family as a result of his father's serious demotion, not showing proper signs of respect towards his superior. He had been nailed by an overzealous boss for staying at his desk, and not rushing out to greet the minister when the minister came on inspection. Paperbacker Podcast 6:51 Whoa, what does this mean? How do you show respect to your superiors here? Isn't it just? Yes, sir. No, sir. What could he have possibly done? That was so bad to get a demotion and a job transfer? Seems slightly severe, doesn't it? Kenny 7:10 No, right. Good question. Actually, like in Asia culture, there are like a, you know, it's such a things like saving face. So say what the saving face means? If someone did something wrong, then they cannot say sorry, because I'm not in the position to say sorry, because I'm higher than you. So the person who is high up there, and never say sorry, because to save their face, because they're not doing anything wrong. There's what they believe, when they show up, when they show their appearance. Other people like a junior or lower, you know, class, they have to greet the superior, like a king, you know, like kind of King culture also related, you know, someone who has a power is a kind of like King, so very Emperor. So we have to either a bow, or I don't know, like have bow not just like you're waving to them, because waving is a equal relationship. Right? So we're not supposed to wave to superior on the boundary, or deep bowing or, you know, out of sight, and that kind of keep this superior save their face. Paperbacker Podcast 8:40 Well, what would happen if you were in a company like Facebook, you got one of these guys like Mark Zuckerberg, who's in his 20s something, and you're older than him, but he's Mark Zuckerberg. So what would you do there? Well, there is a very tricky question. So all right, if I, if I said that, like back then like, were the when the Gwangju massacre, like happened, then I will say no, maybe like no one like older than him, never going to work for him, because of the money. Because they have to keep their pride to save their face. So maybe like younger to him than those who are younger than him. They might work for him, but not happening. But nowadays. I think this is like all ruled by money, right? So if you think you can get good money, and you have to be loyal to the person who give you money. So nowadays, yes, they will work hard for him for the money. But back then, like 330 years ago, maybe nobody would work for him. Summary 9:56 All right, what happens next? So Pyeongtae enters the new local school called S Elementary School. His prior school in Seoul was prestigious. It's an imposing three storey red brick main building, but S Elementary School was different. It had an old Japanese style with plattered exterior and ramshackled tar painted board classrooms. And the class size was much smaller, with boys and girls' classes strictly segregated. He still expected his school and classmates to be impressed by him. He was after all, a top five students in Seoul with very good skills and painting. But nothing works out that way compared to Seoul. His new schools facility room and staff were, here, "lifeless, shabby country folk blowing smoke out like chimneys." Pyeongtae's teacher is equally unimpressive. For example, when Pyeongtae's mother met him for the first time, the teacher was wearing a white rice wine-stained shirt, ungroomed hair, likely unwashed and responded lazily and disengaged to every question. A sign of things to come. Paperbacker Podcast 11:16 I think I can say confidently that It's never good when your teacher shirt is stained with rice wine. Kenny 11:22 I think that is a you know, Makeoli, which is a Makeol is pretty much same as like wine. So how wine is brewed? Like in Korea, like same, so using rice instead of a grape. So they brew really like for, you know, a couple of days with a...with a some like, you know, chemical stuff. And they become Makeoli like taste little bit. I don't know like a reach and then little bit sticky on your tongue. And we usually have Makeoli with a, you know, Sprite with it. Then like, we can have some sweet taste into it. So everyone loves it. And the ratio is one bottle of Makeoli with two cans of Sprites, that is a perfect ratio for people. I never seen anyone who doesn't like it. Paperbacker Podcast 12:29 Which one's better? Soju or Makeoli? Kenny 12:32 I will say half and half but soju is more popular, just a little bit. Paperbacker Podcast 12:40 Alright, so I guess it's safe to say it's unusual for teachers. I always thought that teachers were respected well here in Korea, and it was a noble profession. Kenny 12:51 Yeah, here they're following the confusion, confusion says, like, teacher or professor had to be respected from people, because they're very highly educated. They're very admirable, desirable, you know. Paperbacker Podcast 13:12 All right, so let me see who the bad guy in this story is. Summary 13:16 Om Sokdae, the class monitor. Pyeongtae and Om Sokdae clash immediately. Om Sokdae is slightly older than the other students. He is the true ruler of that classroom, ruling with a sort of Iron Fist. Pyeongtae refuses to give into his demands. And Om Sokdae slowly chips away at Pyeongtae through his strong dictator like influences, waiting for Pyeongtae to break. It's this constant struggling battle that makes up most of our story. Not obeying Om Sokdae's every command was considered to be the worst thing you could do. He was absolute monarch. Even when two boys here get into a fight at lunch that very first day of Pyeongtae's arrival, Sokdae disciplined them, like a teacher would. And also students would even give a portion of their lunch to Om Sokdae. Whatever he wanted, he got. Om Sokdae even keeps a list of the fighters in the school, a ranking of best to worst. And he sometimes organizes these fights in the forest outside of school. Not personally. But everyone knows he's the one that makes them happen. Paperbacker Podcast 14:37 Sounds like a lot of fighting in this story. Clearly Om Sokdae has way too much power. Maybe too much power is given to the class monitor, in general. Kenny 14:46 No, yeah, like that is a really good example. Like, that represents really well, the movie, um, described it very well. Actually, we have like a, you know, class boss, which is the class president, right? And we just called both because of that, the role the teacher's role is assigned to the class president. So usually like a class president collects all the homework and then give it to teacher. And then also there is a problem. Like, only like a talk with a class president, that with anyone. A teacher has a big trust on him. That is a true, that really happened. Because teachers are really lazy, or busy, like, you know, drinking Makeoli. Yeah, so they have to hire someone by paying him good grade. Paperbacker Podcast 15:50 And this giving your lunch to the class monitor thing, and the organizing fights and everything? Kenny 15:57 That is a little bit exaggerated, because like, everyone had to bring their own lunchbox. So usually, they open the cover of their lunchbox and then walk around and then enjoy everyone's meal. Everyone side dishes, like a buffet, you know, no one, ya know, covers their lunch box, because like, mine is yours. Yours and mine, you know, that kind of Korean, you know, thought. Sharing is, you know, caring here. Yeah, there are like some rich students, like who, who had like, two different side dishes, one for the public and the other one for his own. So, you know, that explains everything right? So one has to be taken out for everyone. Paperbacker Podcast 16:47 In my, in my elementary school, we didn't have that type of system. But we did have this sort of trading. We had, like, you know, trading going on. Like, I'll trade you my sandwich for your cupcake. It's like more like just business transactions. If I want your cupcake, I'd say hey, do you I'll trade you have my sandwich for your cupcake. And if like you if they or like, I'll trade my Cheetos for your cupcake. That's a more realistic one. And then if they agree, then you trade your food, and then you have your food. But I remember the teachers at one point got really upset about that. So they like made this announcement. You know, you can't trade your food. If you trade your food and you get caught you're gonna get like written up. So I tried to put a stop to it. It's basically like how people did with Pokemon cards. That's how they traded their food. I know my mom specifically was, she was, uh, she didn't like that because she packed my lunch and she wanted me to eat the food I gave her like, she didn't want me she didn't want me eating those like sugar cupcakes. She wanted me eat my carrots in my whatever I had, you know, lunch sandwich and my fruit cup. You know? So like, some people I remember some kids were eating like salami sandwich and pudding. And then they had like chips or something you know, and then like a soda. And then I would have like a, like a meat sandwich a fruit cup, uh, baby carrots. And I was just I had like such a nice healthy lunch. But I was, I mean I was still jealous of people that walked in with those pudding those snack packs or the zebra cakes or something. Kenny 18:33 Kind of you know sounds like really fair to me because you have options right? Like you can decide either I you know trade that with my sandwich or yeah just take my sandwich. But, in Korean culture, no choice you have to do it because that's what everyone does. I feel you man, because my mother always packed my lunch with anchovies and, I know, fried like grasshoppers. Not kidding. We used to have it, really tasty, like a very, you know, it's a very rich in protein. And I kind of like it, but I really envy you know, those who have a spam like really nice, like it you know, fried spam. It is really junk food, right? Paperbacker Podcast 19:19 I actually I don't mind spam so much. Actually think it's awesome. Kenny 19:22 Yeah but a spam a, yeah, only like, you know, fat and salt. Right? Paperbacker Podcast 19:27 And the fighting? Kenny 19:29 I don't know I fought a lot. I don't know like for any reason, or what I can remember, very clearly was...one guy, open his a lunchbox. And then that was a kimbap, like, a roll of kimbap. And as soon as, because his mom is a really famous, you know, for serving nice like a very yum food. So as soon as opening his lunch box cover a lot of like chopsticks goes into his a lunchbox, right away. And then gone before he touches his own food. He was really angry, very angry. So like like, oh my, like almost shivering. You know my personality, you know like I don't really care for you know, I...I find it funny right? So I grabbed the last, you know bit of Kimbap the last one, and ate it. And he shouted at me and he swear me so bad. And then hey, I thought you and I are good friend. I just had a one piece of kimbap and you swear at me? And like, hit... I think he threw his lunchbox on me. So all right, how... you really want to fight? And he said yes. And we all go out. We all went out and then we start fighting because of a one piece of kimbap. Paperbacker Podcast 20:56 What is kimbap? Kenny 20:57 Oh right, kimbap is a...Kim is seaweed, like a flat sheet of you know, seaweed, not something like a long and like not edible one. Very easy to eat. And with a rice and, in the rice, usually like part-boiled carrots and some lotus roots and...what else? Eggs and spinach. So very like well balanced food like... because of seaweed covered the rice and the rice has carrots and then some eggs and sometimes sausages in it. So very well balanced food. That is kimbap. So when we make up you know, the long roll of kimbap and then we slice into several pieces, usually like eight or 10 pieces. And there is a one portion for a small person, like usually like a big, you know, big people is like two rolls, right? Yeah. And then he brought like, one roll of kimbap and then that kimbap was all taken from the people around that. Paperbacker Podcast 22:09 We don't have kimbap in America. I'm wondering what what the equivalent is. I don't think it would be anything with seaweed. It would be something more like Cheetos or something. I think it depends on the person. It's funny how valuable food is when you're a kid. Kenny 22:24 Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Paperbacker Podcast 22:26 All right. Let's continue the story a little bit. Summary 22:29 So Pyeongtae goes home and he tells his father all about Om Sokdae. And his dad says, "That boy is really something! You said his name was Om Sokdae, didn't you? If he's like that already, he's surely to be heading for great things." Well, that's not what you want your dad to say when your worst enemy is tormenting you. Then he continues on and says that PyeongtaeTae is a weakling and he says that he should be more like Om Sokdae and be class monitor himself instead of complaining about it. But the problem is, I see that there's not elections until spring. And even so how would a new arrival overcome the domination of Om Sokdae in election. So the next day for lunch, it's Pyeongtae's turn to bring Sokdae a cup of water. PyongTae refuses and threatens to ask the teacher if such things are normal. Sokdae stops him and lets the matter go. For now. It was a temporary victory. But it was the beginning of the long six month battle about to occur. Soon after, fellow students are spontaneously picking fights with them. And Sokdae only appeared in the situations that displayed him as the problem solver, or the Savior. Pyeongtae suffered persecution and discrimination by his peers. He was kept out of information he was picked on and subject to abuse all orchestrated by Sokdae's power and influence. And of course, he was always being called a little Sekki. Paperbacker Podcast 24:12 What's a Sekki? Kenny 24:15 All right, Sekki is literally like...like a translated as a Sekki baby. Usually we just put like Ge in front of Sekki. That is a big swear word like a big one Ge Sekki is a dog baby which is...um...which is, what?, is equivalent to son of mhmm. Right? Son of B----. And sekki is of something like "Hey dude", or...it's not really offensive word. Not actually classified as swearing word. I can call you sekki. Like if we were really close, like sometime like when we are a little bit tipsy and I call you Hey I love you motherfucker or I love you fucker, you know, that kind of stuff is not as strong as that word. But like, it could be like very familiar, a very intimate word. Or it could be offensive word. Paperbacker Podcast 25:13 So it's just about the context of using it? Kenny 25:15 Exactly, right. Paperbacker Podcast 25:16 So is that pretty much like the worst...is that like the worst thing you can say to somebody? Kenny 25:20 No, I think because of the movie. If there is a real situation, swearing word, hh, worse than that. Sekki is a very, how can I say? screne word, the movie has to find a right word that can be shown to every age. So they...I think the movie director chose the sekki as a strong swear word, but it's not strong at all. Paperbacker Podcast 25:49 Alright, so let me keep reading a little bit. Summary 25:52 Pyeongtae tries in many ways to combat Sokdae. Election happens and it's a no-go. He tried paying off the Om Sokdae's inner gang circle, but that also failed. He tried to beat him with good grades, but somehow Sokdae always came out on top. Pyeongtae always takes considerable time trying to locate Sokdae's weaknesses, a chance for rumors or smearing his name. But he can't find anything. And yet, their class is always flourishing in many ways under Sokdae's rule. Obviously, fellow students were afraid of them so much that results came swiftly. But still, even though Sokdae was a terrible person. They were a model classroom. One day, when a student PyeongJo brings his father's valuable lighter to school, Sokdae takes it. Pyeongtae finally tells the teacher about the lighter and many other offenses, but Sokdae manages to find out and gives it back to PyeongJo, before the teacher can come in. Therefore, PyeongTae ends up looking bad for lying, and the teacher has a tough time believing him from then on. One of PyeongTae's final efforts is to get Om Sokdae out of the room. So each student can write complaints to the teacher without Sokdae intimidating them. The teacher obliges, but the result is opposite. Blank papers and the only offenses are the ones by Pyeongtae. Those are the ones that have been written nothing about Sokdae. Paperbacker Podcast 27:29 Man, this guy just can't get a break. He's incredibly resilient though I'll give him that. I like this quote right here. It says "If fighting is considered purely in terms of the will to attack or to defend my fight with salty ended that day, but if refusal to submit an unwillingness to compromise are regarded as a form of fighting, then my lonely tedious fight continued for another two months." So let me see what happened next. Summary 28:04 Over the next two months PyeongTae gets reported for every single misdeed and slightest fault. Such things that included long fingernails, the loss of a button on his uniform, and reading a comic book and class. Everybody else always knew everything, but he always knew nothing. And so he was always caught PyeongTae was outcasted every tactic thwarted, until finally he gets to his breaking point. Sokdae assigns class jobs and gives PyeongTae the job of cleaning the windows, but despite PyeongTae's devotion to cleaning the windows spotless time after time, Sokdae says they are not good enough and to clean it again. PyeongTae cleans it again and again, and again. And only after breaking down in tears after many cleaning attempts, Sokdae passes the inspection. Finally, things begin to improve for PyeongTae, after this submission, he gets in less fights, less trouble and is invited more to more events with students. His grades improved too. Oh, look at this quote. "All Sokdae wanted for me was to adapt to his order and not to try and destroy the kingdom he had established. This is what submission meant." Kenny 29:21 Yeah, that's, um, ridiculous. Like, especially that script. What was that? Hey, is your turn. You have to bring him a cup of water when he is eating...eating lunch. So like what why? Because he has his own two arms, hands and two feet. So why would I? And then one like random guy, you know stood up and hey, just to as I say so. Something like that, oh my god, like but you have to fight against all the students. That's the problem. If one or, you know, a couple of, you know, students, you have to fight, then I think I have... okay...I have great motivation because I have to change this class. So I have to, you know, give them even though I got beat up so much, but I don't know every single, you know students in class, hey, do it, do it, do it because I do it you do it? Yes. If the situation I think I'm gonna be I will be one of them. I just follow that is what the society is, what would you do? Paperbacker Podcast 30:24 It's easy to think as a third party adult that you might not do what that guy says. But when I think back to my own childhood, even depending on who does it, some people are pretty intimidating at that age. They're big, or they're, you know, you're not really strong. So like, you know, the more forceful aggressive person you just sort of say, like, you know, alright, whatever, you know, like pick, I'm not going to pick this fight. So I think yeah, you can't really you actually have to give I mean, it's a fictional character, but you have to give him some credit. He stands his ground pretty well. Summary 30:57 Why was Sokdae always getting good grades? Sokdae was having classmates erase their names, and write Sokdae's name on the paper instead. And it was this special system that worked and got him such great grades. PyeongTae was pleased when he saw this. He said, "I would become a new hero with the children who, though they grinned and bore it. Were certainly suffering my heart beat quickly when I thought of the return of freedom, and the reason that I had been forced to abandon." So one day they in fifth grade, and begin sixth grade, and in walks a new young, attentive teacher, and soon the incredible collapse of Sokdae's rule. The new teacher is nothing like the old one. He notices the problem within a few days, especially after the class monitor election brings a vote of 59 to 61 votes in favor of Sokdae. The new teacher knows something is seriously wrong. From then on, he calls on Sokdae in class, to answer problems constantly. And Sokdae can't answer them. What happens next is Sokdae doom. Well after a suspicious collection of test scores, the teacher brings Sokdae day in front of the class. Sokdae is asked to stretch out and bend over. And the teacher nails him with a long stick on the back. He beats him until Sokdae collapses. The teacher had learned of Sokdae's test secret. PyeongTae didn't have to tell them. Paperbacker Podcast 32:33 You know, this is obviously a good example of...uh...a GOOD example of corporal punishment. Where you can actually, where hitting the student actually did some good. Nowadays, you can't hit students, you can't even like touch them. Kenny 32:47 Oh, that's a big problem in school system. Paperbacker Podcast 32:50 Yeah, but do they still do that? I mean... Kenny 32:53 Especially in Korea, I used to work for like high school, like, what, when, like 10 years ago, and I really want to quit because of pay wasn't great and a lot of commute, commute was too long. That the school like actually wanted to keep me because like, you know, cheap labor and then did a good job. So I...there were like two students in my class. In my class, they went out play basketball. Not once, maybe several times. And then I warned them first and the second warn, warn, warn, and they didn't listen to me. So I, you know, okay, you get down, like, in front of the principal in the room. I hit them hard with a stick, like on on their, like back of thigh. Actually stick wasn't like a not really, it was a big, but not really painful, like only like makes up so much noise. And you know what? The principal came out and they watched me doing that with a big grin on his face. So I got re-hired. And I quit, you know, like, schools of corporate punishments in school. Paperbacker Podcast 34:04 All the teachers in the world. If they hear that story, all the I bet you all the teachers totally understand that feeling like... they're like, I can imagine many teachers smiling on the inside too, when like, the worst kid in your class gets a little bit of what's coming to them. I don't know if they would smile that the kid's getting hit. But I would say most most teachers they they could take I mean, I think they'd be a little happy that, you know, the kid gets what's coming to him a little bit. Kenny 34:34 Right? What do you think like a corporal punishment? Like justifies everything or... Paperbacker Podcast 34:40 No...I would say mostly, I think we kind of know that maybe it makes you feel better. Maybe it's sort of it provides A discipline. But I think if you're actually trying to care about the majority of students' development, the hitting them doesn't really...I don't think it ends up... it ends up not really equaling what you want, just like should you hit your kids? There's a lot of debate about that. Spankings verse no touching whatsoever. Seems like people nowadays agree that it doesn't...the hitting part doesn't seem to do much good. Seems like people don't think it does much good. So there's a lot of emphasis on coming up with solutions of non-violence, but it's, it can be pretty darn difficult to think of a solution that actually sticks without causing some sort of what you would consider nowadays, abuse or hitting them with like pain, you know, because kids just have, they can tune you out, you can talk all you want, and they'll just, they'll just not listen to you. And then you're kind of when they really put up that front. And they really come at you and they're like, do something about it. And, you know, you really have to try to figure out how do i do something about it without, you know, addressing his challenge like that directly? There's not it's a hard solution to find sometimes, I think, but I...uh...I sympathize with teachers, when they have all those YouTube videos of them losing their cool. On YouTube, have you seen that? There's like teachers just screaming their heads off at kids throwing desks and chairs. Kenny 36:02 Oh yes. Paperbacker Podcast 36:03 It's funny. But I totally and I totally understand where that frustration is coming from. You still can't do it. But I get it. Kenny 36:11 Yeah, I don't know. Like, you know, you know, what, like, in in Korea, like, educational like, you know, board, there are like a certain size and then certain size of the stick that is allowed to, you know, bring the class and then to discipline that is listed on the paper, like something like 20 something centimeter and now you're you're supposed to hit this hard and that hard. That is listed. Isn't that amazing. Paperbacker Podcast 36:40 Yeah that is amazing. Yeah. Was there any other form of discipline that you saw that was steps before hitting? Detention, obviously, is the main one nowadays. But yeah, what else did you see teachers do? Kenny 36:52 Usually like what like, make them clean the classroom or, or like, ask them come earlier than any other students like 30 minutes earlier, that is really painful, right, you have to wake up 30 minutes earlier, and then come and clean up, you know, in the playground, and, and some, like the people who had a like long hair, because there there were some hair style rules. So you're not supposed to have this kind of long hair. And also, you're not supposed to wear certain shoes, only black, and then uniform. And then having your tie really nicely done something like that. Anyway, so and that, if you don't follow that rule, then you have to raise your hands for one of the students coming in and say something like shouting something like "I am stupid" or something like that. Like, "I'm not going to do this anymore." Paperbacker Podcast 37:48 Well, I think, yeah, I think positive reinforcement goes a long way. But then again, there are times where you do have to stand your own ground. And you do have to say like, you know, don't talk to me that way or like stop this, you know, you do have to sort of push back every now and then but you got to choose those moments, right? Summary 38:07 The effect on the rest of the class is instantaneous, is beating of surf day shows that soak day is merely a boy. The teacher now is a giant. Teacher punishes several more students, his gang in same fashion, hitting them with a long stick. The students confess and the teacher learns everything. Soon everyone is pointing the finger at Sokdae. The teacher is furious though. He says to them, "What was rightfully yours was taken from you and you weren't even angry. You bent to unjust power and you weren't ashamed." But when it's PyeongTae's turn to confess he says he doesn't know anything? The other students are furious with PyeongTae. Now too and PyeongTae silently calls them hypocrites, "Although it doesn't necessarily take a long time for a man to repent. A butcher, they say can become Buddha. If he lays down the knife. I just wasn't convinced by their sudden display of righteousness. To this day, I have a hard time accepting people who suddenly convert from one religion to another, or people who suddenly change their ideology, especially when they rant and rave in front of others." After all this, the students are somehow able to return to having a meeting in class councils. They vote new monitors and council members make new rules how to function as a student body and by the end of it Sokdae suddenly gets up, calls everyone Sekkis and leaves. He never comes back to class. Paperbacker Podcast 39:42 Oh, hey, there's my book page! Thanks so much, Kenny. I really appreciate you sharing this book with me. And I'm definitely gonna bring it home and share it with all my friends. I'll see you later. Hope...to see you again soon! Bye! Paige, oh okay, finally you're here! Have I got a story for you to log in those white pages! First, you gotta meet this book called Our Twisted Hero by Yi Mun-yol. Hello everyone! Thanks for listening! Don't forget to hit that subscribe button. Our next one is to Japan and the book Confessions. You can keep in touch by talking to us on Twitter, @PaperbackerP, or by visiting our website paperbacker.netlify.app. You can recommend guests, books, listen to episodes and more! Including where to find the books for yourself! See you next time! Transcribed by https://otter.ai